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11-19-2003, 03:46 PM
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#21 | | Awaiting Email Confirmation
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: U S of A
Posts: 2,677
| Quote: Originally posted by LovesBritneyForeverG Well, to praying people, this isn't just something little like (Oh, I can just not do this because so and so over here doesn't want me to).
Perhaps, to put this in perspective for you, say, suppose (hypothetically) there was some person from a foreign culture, and it greatly offends anyone in that culture if you sit down at any time during the day except for when you sleep, which is only supposed to be at a certain exact hour. Now, suppose this person asks you to not sit down because it offends him/her. Also suppose you have a seat right handy and that you will have to be around in that area waiting around for a long long time (over eight hours), and you can't move one way or the other because it is so crowded. Now, would you honor that person's wishes and stand up the entire time, or would you consider that something ridiculous to request and sit down?
It is something ridiculous to request, as is to request praying people from not praying. It is that simple. | Very well said. |
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11-19-2003, 08:53 PM
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#22 | | Mraz-a-licious
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Iowa City @ U of I
Posts: 6,875
| Quote: Originally posted by LovesBritneyForeverG Well, to praying people, this isn't just something little like (Oh, I can just not do this because so and so over here doesn't want me to).
Perhaps, to put this in perspective for you, say, suppose (hypothetically) there was some person from a foreign culture, and it greatly offends anyone in that culture if you sit down at any time during the day except for when you sleep, which is only supposed to be at a certain exact hour. Now, suppose this person asks you to not sit down because it offends him/her. Also suppose you have a seat right handy and that you will have to be around in that area waiting around for a long long time (over eight hours), and you can't move one way or the other because it is so crowded. Now, would you honor that person's wishes and stand up the entire time, or would you consider that something ridiculous to request and sit down?
It is something ridiculous to request, as is to request praying people from not praying. It is that simple. | If I was in a foreign country and it was considered an offense to that culture if I sat down at any time other than the designated time, I would try my hardest to obey their culture and wishes.
If it's wrong to ask a praying person not to pray isn't it also wrong to ask someone to push aside their beliefs for the sake of someone else's? Which is essentially what these "praying people" are asking others to do. They're basically saying that they shouldn't have to respect other people's right to ask them not to pray in public, they're saying that their beliefs are more important than the "non praying people".
You can't be politically correct all the time. But at the same time, you can try as much as humanly possible to make sure that you don't offend people in the meantime. Instead of having a group prayer before a game, why not just say an individual prayer? It's the same thing, you're still praying and your voice is being heard, but it wouldn't be imposing your system of beliefs on someone else that does share those beliefs with you. |
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11-20-2003, 09:59 AM
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#23 | | Alien Elf With Clogs
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,346
| Quote: Originally posted by CrAZyBeAuTiFuL4 If I was in a foreign country and it was considered an offense to that culture if I sat down at any time other than the designated time, I would try my hardest to obey their culture and wishes.
If it's wrong to ask a praying person not to pray isn't it also wrong to ask someone to push aside their beliefs for the sake of someone else's? Which is essentially what these "praying people" are asking others to do. They're basically saying that they shouldn't have to respect other people's right to ask them not to pray in public, they're saying that their beliefs are more important than the "non praying people".
You can't be politically correct all the time. But at the same time, you can try as much as humanly possible to make sure that you don't offend people in the meantime. Instead of having a group prayer before a game, why not just say an individual prayer? It's the same thing, you're still praying and your voice is being heard, but it wouldn't be imposing your system of beliefs on someone else that does share those beliefs with you. | The people praying are not imposing their beliefs on others by praying. If someone else did not share the beliefs of praying, and heard someone praying, it would likely not change his/her mind one way or the other.
Also, I'm not talking about being in another culture, but I'm talking about someone FROM another culture coming here and doing that. Christians are not purposely going to other cultures to pray, but are in their OWN culture and still being asked not to, it seems. If you would honor that other culture's wishes to not sit down, then why not honor this culture's wishes for them to pray? (They aren't making you pray). |
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11-20-2003, 11:20 AM
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#24 | | Grandmaster Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: MD
Posts: 533
| It seems to me, that if Christians would put more effort into doing worthwhile things, like feeding the homless guy who lives behind me, and NOT complaining about praying at a foot ball game...then the world would be a much better place. i mean, praying at a football game does nothing, but feeding a homeless guy saves a life. i think what im really trying to say is:
GET OVER IT, and go do something worthwihile, cuz i have a feeling that God would prefer it if you did something to help mankind rather than praying to him to do it! mother teresa said something along the same lines.
Last edited by stardust : 11-20-2003 at 11:22 AM.
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11-20-2003, 07:15 PM
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#25 | | John 6:44-47 (NIV)
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: i rep the 'pep' in va
Posts: 12,651
| People don't pray to ask God to grant their wishes. Most pray that if it's in His will for these things (the "wishes") to happen, let them happen. It's two different things. A prayer can be a wish or want, but it's not always. And that is the generalization about praying Christians are forced to reckon with.
Sure, we can feed the homeless guy, and then everyone else in the world will want to be poor because they don't have to work to get food, they can just rely on everyone else. How about getting the homeless guy a job and help him get to work every day. Sure, you can have lunch with him everyday until he gets his paycheck, but there's a point to where you have to do things for yourself as well. You don't want to be trampled on by the masses. You want to be as kind and generous, but also, stand out. It's not your purpose to, but if you set your foot in a right direction, it usually comes full swing.
In my opinion, praying to God is only humoring Him, which I respect. Because if I created the world (offense given to Evolutionists), I'd want some respect, too. But you can't exactly do that when you're invisible. He knows what you want Him to do for you, and instead of making it all about yourself (which people think is all Christians do - "please God make my brother stop hitting me," or, "please God move this pencil and write me out an awesome research paper"), we ask Him in the simplest way [by prayer] to guide us so that we don't screw up totally (meaning there will be bumps, we all know this, it's an expectation by now - but it's how you react to them that makes God's opinion of you), so that He knows we're happy and grateful He's by our side at all times.
So why can't we pray? Because people might be informed about what we're doing and maybe like what they hear (oh my!). And in that respect, atheists are not allowed to cuss, drink, have sex, or smoke weed/cigarettes, and other illegal things in the presence of Christians, because we know better. We don't want to see it. Now respect my wishes, atheists and agnostics. Please don't do what you're used to doing anywhere else. When I (or any other Christian) is around, I would like for you to grant my wish.
And when that day comes, I would looooooove for a prayer not to be spoken before a football game. It is annoying that the world doesn't have respect for others. Again, bringing me back to the point where it's all about us, all about us. When really, it should be all about Him. Our focus and concentration shouldn't even be bothered by those talking while a crowd is praying. But it really doesn't help when someone is saying "Can you please stop that? I don't believe in God so can you do it somewhere else?" until we're stuck in a corner to where maybe we'd be allowed to pray.
I don't think so. Not happening here.
How come it's our (Christians) responsibility to save a homeless man's life, can't any atheist or agnostic help him out? I mean, we're too 'perfect' to do such a thing. [/sarcasm] Instead of owning up, people like to blame others. Hey, if the opportunity presents itself, and I have money or food, and I see a starving person, I'm gonna ask them what they're intentions are for my money, and if booze is one of their priorities, I'll tell them to wait for the next sucker. I'm sorry. But I will give up my food, as fast as I can say "Amen." |
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