The way of the gun... United States - Page 6 - Eternal Allegiance

[ SARAH ] · 08-09-2003, 12:59 PM

That is so scary. When I get older I'm moving to some small Europen country that nobody's ever heard of

America has gotten so bad

I mean, how many billions of dollars in debt are we and we're spending how much making Sacajawea coins?

We need someone who truely cares about the people.

midnightman · 08-09-2003, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Absolute Britney
WOW... that is so scary... but as far as I know, U.S. is the only country out of these where guns are legal... I never did understud why - because they should be illegal... everywhere! Guns kill and if they were not legal it would really change these statics!

This is so hideously incorrect that I'll only spend two words to rebuff you: Nazi Germany

Rigeri · 08-10-2003, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by [ SARAH ]
That is so scary. When I get older I'm moving to some small Europen country that nobody's ever heard of

America has gotten so bad I mean, how many billions of dollars in debt are we and we're spending how much making Sacajawea coins? We need someone who truely cares about the people.

Yeah...

Why do we have terrorists ? Why do we have criminals in our nations ?

The main reason.. well is simple really...

80% of people in the world are POOR!!!!! And poor people in the richest countries of the planet become criminals because they think its unfair (and it is)...

Now don't get me wrong... not saying everybody should just get money from governments like crazy or something... I just think many countries including the US should make minimal salary higher and take care of EVERYBODY and not just people who have money... that includes getting an education and hospital service for FREE!

I mean I wouldn't even wanna be rich if it would make the society a bad place to live in.

And I believe the international society could easily change the world in the next 100 years so everybody could get water, food and education.... as long as we are less than 10 billion people on the planet and keep making it a better place, we could change it so 99% of people on the planet could have a medium good life.

But it won't happen because people are greedy, period.

I hate this world

FantaOrSprite · 08-10-2003, 08:15 PM

^ the only problem with hospitals and such becoming free is where are they getting their money?? They would get it from tax payers, which would increase taxes 10 fold, which would mean less money in my pocket from the pittance I earn now. Most people would rather taxes stay low and keep all their money then worry about health care they may never use.
Anyways, most people have insurance

although it breaks our damn necks to get it)
I donot nessasarily agree with the crime rate being due to 'poor people'. Crack dealers are some of the richest people around, yet they are popping people left and right.
If someone hates being poor heres my advice: Work your ass off to get somewhere like most of us out here are doing. Nothing is given for free in this world. SOme of the most successful people in the world once lived in their cars and in the streets, yet got to where they areby hard work. I don't think its unfair at all. Anyone can get a job at Mcdonalds and go from there....Community college is usually practically free..

Rigeri · 08-11-2003, 11:15 AM

Well it works over here and in MANY European countries... why not there ?

We have one of the best hopital sevices in the world... everybody can use it.. don't need insurances... Also the government pays like 90% of the cost for education.. Here people don't have to make a special bank account so their kid can go to college later.

Why do we do it ? BECAUSE EVERYBODY get educated to some level and need health care.

This attitude is whats wrong with the US... poor people die or become criminals so the richer people can buy McDonalds food or cellular phones cheaper (things you don't need).

You seriously think its fair people don't get the same service at hospitals or a good education JUST BECAUSE they were born in a poor family ? Is it fair they have to work for years to safe money for an education ? Education = good for the nation so it should be paid with tax money. In some European countries you even get PAID SALARY for being in school and educate yourself... Why ? Because it makes life better in the nation and its good for business in the country

midnightman · 08-11-2003, 11:31 AM

Yes, people are greedy. They also have the instinct of survival, and survival is something that is too important to entrust in the hands of others. They are mistrustful and suspicious about the motives of a government or any group of people that takes their possessions (money) away for "good purposes".

One thing with your socialistic ideas Geiri is that government-run education and health care would be quite nightmarish... just go to a private health clinic and you wait long enough. A government-run would make you wait TONS more because it is hard, in the US, to fire bearucrats (to prevent executive abuse), so they don't feel any job pressure. Plus, they would have a monopoly over health care and thus no competition.

And yeah, it works in Europe, but what do you guys give up in exchange? You have economic SECURITY, while we have economic FREEDOM, and this is a key difference between Europe and the US. We, as a result of our origins and shared political beliefs, value freedom over security. As Franklin said: "Those who exchange essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security."

I believe in assisting those who need it with services rather than a free ride. That's how my parents managed to get on their feet when they first got together (they were BROKE, I mean BROKE). They were on welfare for about two years before they could support themselves. We're about lower middle class now.

I just don't like anything centrally run by the government because I don't trust the government at all to give it that much power, and the nature of monopoly and having the government do it (which means it need not be speedy, plus there is red tape, delays, waste, duplication, etc etc).

That's how I think. I am a mistrustful person by nature, and I value liberties over securities. I think Franklin was right when he said that security is temporary.

Rigeri · 08-11-2003, 12:42 PM

well I never said the government should give everything to everybody free... We have no competition here and still we have one of the best health cares in the world that everybody can use. Education is the key to a good/normal life so thats why it should be free... Its not like the government would be giving people free cars or something... there will always be lazy people that won't go to school so you don't have to worry about 2 many people being 2 educated.

I mean what is freedom ? Do you have freedom if you can't do everything you want because of laws ? Is it peoples "freedom" to make many more billions while others can't eat ?

Hospitals runned by the government there are "bad" BECAUSE you also have others... if they would all be runned by the government then it would have to be better.. get my point ?

The united states are in 7th place of human developement in the world... countries like Norway and Iceland are higher mainly because of things like health care, education, higher minimal salary and more oportunities for women.

I think thats more important than "freedom" for few businessmen.

midnightman · 08-12-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Geiri
[b]well I never said the government should give everything to everybody free... We have no competition here and still we have one of the best health cares in the world that everybody can use. Education is the key to a good/normal life so thats why it should be free... Its not like the government would be giving people free cars or something... there will always be lazy people that won't go to school so you don't have to worry about 2 many people being 2 educated.

Again, I think a big reason why it works there and not here is because of the difference in political culture... Americans are very contentious and want their rights to be asserted and protected... even at the cost of a (to some, supposedly) harmonious way of life.

I do agree with the free education argument... except I would change a great number of aspects of the US education system to privatize it a bit more. But at any rate everyone should have the OPPORTUNITY to go to school.

Quote:

I mean what is freedom ? Do you have freedom if you can't do everything you want because of laws ? Is it peoples "freedom" to make many more billions while others can't eat ?

There are good and bad points to everything, including freedom. But at least freedom has good points.

Quote:

Hospitals runned by the government there are "bad" BECAUSE you also have others... if they would all be runned by the government then it would have to be better.. get my point ?

Actually it comes from government interference that drives lots of companies out of business... leaving the few that cooperate with government interference, and they then become little more than a front for a government-run hospital without the funding.

Rigeri · 08-12-2003, 01:20 PM

my point is that its like that because you have others... if everybody would use the same service (including important government people), then it wouldn't be like that.

The prime minister and the president here go to the same hospital I go to.. (live in the same area)... But even they don't have to pay anything because our tax money already did.

08-12-2003, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Geiri
my point is that its like that because you have others... if everybody would use the same service (including important government people), then it wouldn't be like that.

The prime minister and the president here go to the same hospital I go to.. (live in the same area)... But even they don't have to pay anything because our tax money already did.

Well they go to the same hospital cuz Iceland is a small nation! but idnt it normal that the PM and president get the same rights as normal citizens!?