Bush backs bar on gay marriage - Page 34 - Eternal Allegiance

Nanny · 08-03-2004, 02:28 PM

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Originally posted by FormerlyLBFG
God created man in his own image. God has freewill and, therefore, created man with freewill as well. I mean, God could have simply created robots which always did what was right but then they wouldn't have free will and there would be no way of knowing whether, if given the chance, they would choose for good or for evil. Besides, who are you to judge God?

And who the fuck is God to judge me?

Starshine · 08-03-2004, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Swany
And who the fuck is God to judge me?

*claps*

Besides, who the fuck is someone ELSE to judge me FOR God?

IamA-BFG · 08-03-2004, 02:43 PM

God is God, Lord and Commander and Creator of the entire universe and everything in it! If such a tremendous being does not have authority to judge then I do not know who does. Hmm, I guess now whenever you create something you cannot judge if it is a good or bad thing, even if you think it sucks...but no..WAIIT....it must be good regardless right?...because...if God isn't allowed to judge His creations then you are not allowed to judge yours either right?

I suppose you'll have to save EVERYTHING you do, make, create, think about, etc...even the suckiest and not rank or order them in any way, shape, or form because, obviously, you cannot judge which would fit where because that would be, well, JUDGING!

Give me a break..sheesh!

And who the hell said anybody was judging anybody else FOR God?

God judges. End of story.

Starshine · 08-03-2004, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FormerlyLBFG
And who the hell said anybody was judging anybody else FOR God? God judges. End of story.

Then why do "mere beings" feel the need to protest gay marriages? Or why do kids on message boards feel the need to tell other kids on message boards who happen to be gay that its a sin? If you all feel God is judging us, then please, we dont need to you to tell us.

I dont care how many quotes from the bible I read. Im still not straight. I wont be scared straight either. I believe strongly in what I am.

Nanny · 08-03-2004, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FormerlyLBFG
God is God, Lord and Commander and Creator of the entire universe and everything in it! If such a tremendous being does not have authority to judge then I do not know who does. Hmm, I guess now whenever you create something you cannot judge if it is a good or bad thing, even if you think it sucks...but no..WAIIT....it must be good regardless right?...because...if God isn't allowed to judge His creations then you are not allowed to judge yours either right?

I suppose you'll have to save EVERYTHING you do, make, create, think about, etc...even the suckiest and not rank or order them in any way, shape, or form because, obviously, you cannot judge which would fit where because that would be, well, JUDGING!

Give me a break..sheesh!

And who the hell said anybody was judging anybody else FOR God? God judges. End of story.

Fine. If God can judge me, the golden rule allows me to judge him. He's an asshole.

PapRoach123 · 08-03-2004, 06:54 PM

I find the assumption of sexual orientation being a choice very, VERY hard to believe. Simply because that doesn't make sense with the things we see in the world today. If sexual orientation was a choice, then a lot of things that exist in this world would simply not be there. I stated my reasons for that in this thread already:

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I've read somewhere that sexual orientation is a choice? I don't buy that. In fact, I think it's pretty much bullshit, heh. Just as like you do not get to choose who you fall in love with... we all know about the tales of the countries where the great Kings select the wives for their sons to marry for benefit of the King's bloodline. It's their belief that the royal bloodline is superior to that of a 'normal' man. But eventually, love is not something you can mimick, simulate or create. Because love comes from within the heart. And what's in the heart cannot be controlled by choice. Choice is controlled by the brain, but the brain has no power over the heart. Any human being knows this. Or there would be no pain when breaking up. Heartache, or the pangs of love would not exist if the heart is controlled by choice. You can choose to break up with someone, but the heart want the person back. Common knowledge.

Some say God controls what's in our hearts. They say He helps us in finding our soulmate, they say we walk the path that He laid out for us. Homosexuality would be a part of the path that He laid out for them. This because they never made that choice.

They can only make the choice to abandon that path and walk something else. I know homosexuals who dated girls because they believed what their heart told them was wrong. But they never adjusted. They were CONVINCED that they were sick. It didn't help. Their brain could not convince their hearts to love girls in the way they loved guys. At that point choice has been defeated. It holds no power in that respect.

Animals are not able to understand choice. They go by instinct. One of my neighbours' dogs would be bisexual if he was human because he jumps females AND males...

So therefore I believe that to describe sexual orientation as a matter of choice is closer to being a sad attempt by some human at covering up a factor that the bible did not include when it was written, according to them. The bible was and is maintained by humans and humans are not perfect. So even the bible of today can have flaws, because that's what the human race is all about. Nobody is perfect, not even the representatives of God because they also, are made of flesh and blood.

I won't challenge what the bible originally said, but I'm certain that the human representatives over the centuries have been responsible for diverging interpretations slowly changing the true perspective of the original texts. And now it is man who is confronted with their own flaws bringing as they believe in jeopardy what they stand for, but yet should maintain perspective and not pay so much attention to the outside world trying to challenge them every day.

Therefore I feel that those who originally came up with the idea that sexual orientation is a choice, were simply trying to cover up their own mistakes with cheap excuses. Having all these things exist, and at the same time saying this thing is a choice? No way. God doesn't contradict himself like that. Only people do.

Quote:

Originally posted by Swany
Fine. If God can judge me, the golden rule allows me to judge him. He's an asshole.

And you base that judgement on the perceptions of other people who happen to believe in Him?

That is like telling Kizzie that Mariah sucks because he went and dissed Britney. Mariah doesn't have to be a bitch just because Kizzie said that Mariah sings better than Britney. It's not Mariah's fault that Kizzie feels that way.

It's also not God's fault how people interpret their bibles. God allowed you to exist, Swany, so He's not that bad of a 'person'.

Nanny · 08-04-2004, 02:19 AM

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Originally posted by Stinger
God allowed you to exist, Swany, so He's not that bad of a 'person'.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that 'He' has allowed me to exist, because I don't believe in 'Him'. Hence why I chose to judge him.

PapRoach123 · 08-04-2004, 03:48 AM

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Originally posted by Swany
Unfortunately, I don't believe that 'He' has allowed me to exist, because I don't believe in 'Him'. Hence why I chose to judge him.

Somehow I knew you'd say that. But that wasn't my point. My point was that when you look through their eyes, then God is real. But they can't speak for God and tell you what God thinks. They can't tell you that their interpretation from whatever version of the bible they've been using is exactly how God thinks. Because somewhere down the line you will find contradictions, there are definite flaws in their reasoning present. Which means that you should never assume that what one person says about God is true and that this gives you the right to judge Him like that.

It's pretty rude to judge another man's belief period. And from your perspective, God (real or not) is another man's belief. God means so much to these people, and you come in and say He is an asshole, because of what one man says. In reality, you are then offending a shitload of people, INCLUDING the ones who love God, but DO respect you and your way of life.

You won't get this selective group of people to stop judging you when you start offending those who do support you as well. You'll lose more respect that way.

I understand where you're coming from though, and I also understand that it gets frustrating at times. But when you start cutting down on their beliefs as a response, then you are giving them good reasons to oppose you, rather than to let you be...

Bottom line though, from your perspective God isn't real. But if He was like they believe, then God did allow you to exist. And God also allowed gay marriages in many other countries, including mine. And Christians here accept it.

So that means He would not have been against you per definition, had He been real in your mind.

Starshine · 08-04-2004, 04:14 AM

Well honestly, cutting down someone's belief's is just as bad as saying someone's going to hell because they are gay. Im not even kidding, you have no idea how much that hurts.

Throughout this entire thread, I havent left a reply (besides this one) without shaking with hurt, anger and frustration.

I dont see why Brandon should have to respect someone elses belief, when they are saying such terrible things to him. If he feels a certain way about God, why should he bit his tounge if they arent?

CrAZyBeAuTiFuL4 · 08-04-2004, 05:41 AM

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Originally posted by Jess
Well, being a serial killer is stressful too, but you'd still have that choice.

People who are serial killers don't do it because they choose to. Okay, they do, but it's not like they make their decision with a clear conscious and 100% normal way of thinking. People who are serial killers have MANY things wrong with them psychologically and don't function as normal people like you and I would. Their thought processes are disrupted and they can't make morally sound choices. To them it's just what feels good and what doesn't. Not "Is this right? Is this wrong?"

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I think, the stressful part, is not thinking you'll be accepted by other people. Which I think is just wrong. I've very open to people of anything, because it isn't my place to judge.

You may be openminded, and that's great, but a lot of people aren't. And that's what makes it difficult.

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I know many people who have said they were bi-sexual, went through all the stress, and it ended up being something that was just a, how do I say this, "fling" type thing? The thing is, it wasn't just a month thing or so, it was a 6 year thing. But then, again, that isn't speaking for all you.

Some people DO choose to experiment with bi-sexuality and homosexuality. But not all, only SOME.

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I know personally, even after I admitted I was bi-sexual, and went through so much pain with that, after 2 years, I figured out I wasn't.

Interesting. Now, did you choose to think or believe that you were bisexual, or did you feel that you really were and that there was nothing you could do to stop it? You admited that you were bisexual. Then two years later you figured out you weren't...that doesn't sound like a choice to me. If you knew you weren't, then you wouldn't have gone through all that pain, you wouldn't have made a conscious decision to go through that if you knew that you really weren't. Does that make sense?

All I know is that I did not choose to be straight. I don't choose who I love. Why would that be different with someone attracted to the same sex? Or both sexes?