YesJess

ForeverInLoveWithJus

Well said Jessy.

PapRoach123

There is a BIG difference between a dog/cat and a human being, man. You can't use that as an argument, it's bogus!


Man, I've already defeated that argument in this thread before you even posted that. If you're not going to read a single thing I've said earlier, then it's useless of you to go on. I'll just be repeating myself, and you're not interested in anything I have to say anyways.


I'm sorry, but if you are comparing a gay person wanting to get married to a Satanist, hell, even DARING to speak of them in the same sentence, then by God you are becoming possessed by Satan yourself. The only one to condemn innocent people who pose no threat to human society, is the devil himself. And that they pose no threat is a FACT, my country is living proof.


Ever heard of genetic mutation? Humans weren't the same as they are now centuries ago. We are taller, we live longer, our build is slightly different. Sexual perference is genetic also. Thus it can mutate by the constant crossings of random DNA. That's your explanation right there.


Btw, use the edit button, man...




[EDIT] Added:

Awesome explanation, and it's perfectly logical, yes.


Some people believe that their belief structure is superior to that of any one else. Hitler, Sadam, Bin Laden, and the Devil too. They've all tried/are trying to pursuade the rest of the world into their personal principles.

Hitler wanted blue eyes, blonde hair, and NO jews. Bin Laden created his very own version of the Muslim religion. And the Devil is a big fan of total chaos.

God on the other hand, likes order, freedom and peace. God does not support force or persuasion. He gave all humans the freedom of choice. Don't drift away from that, George. Don't let the Devil manipulate you.

JammieJam

hi stinger, one thing i should have remembered: There's are two things i must not argue about - politics, and religion, thats if i wanna keep my friends

but anyway, i Agree with what you have intially said, ie. God gave the human race the choice to believe in Him, follow Him, or not. He has always given humankind the freedom to make their own decison, with or without his approval. What he intended is underlined in the scriptures and is open to all, but there is not condition that states that all people MUST live and abide by his law. Going back to the Garden of Eden, he gave us the freedom of choice, and we all know the consequences, (if u believe it or not). We live in a world of opposites, a struggle between two contending forces and this is dramatically reinforced in Deuteronomy: "As the heavens and earth are My witness, I have given you life and death, a blessing and a curse; and you are to choose life so that you and your descendents will live" So, thats what christians believe, because it's given to us.


i feel the issue is greater than just the issue of 'same sex' marriages. What my fundamental statement and belief is - is that in the bible it says its wrong, so that is why I believe it is wrong. This goes for other issues such as abortion, prostitution, etc.

Now you said that what is written in the Bible is therefore
meant only for those who chose to follow it - and i feel that this ties in with the belief that every spiritual path is equally valid and that each leads the individual to the very same Divine destination and if we understand and grasp this then mankind can live in a harmonious, global, utopian society. With Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, Gandhi and the Dalai Lama all teaching the same basic things, and that each belief system is true in its own way.

But i must reiterate: Christian fundamentalism upsets this notion when it proclaims two things:

First, that Jesus claimed to be the Messiah and that He alone is the Savior of the human race. (so it implies, he is the Only Way, therefore the Scriptures are the only tools we can use).

2nd: Jesus Christ claimed to be God, and that He was God, the second member of the Divine Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

so till the end of time - we will never be able to agree with same sex marriages, or begin to compromise, cause that would be going against what we believe.

That is what i have to say, and of course i must say this is my personal belief which i am convicted and passionate about. Everyone is entitled to theirs, and i respect you all.

We are all sons and daughters of God.

PapRoach123

Finally an explanation of some sort. Hi there Jeremy. For ages I've been asking people this question and nobody ever gave me an explanation that led them to believe what they believe about these marriages. All they've said is that it's bad. End of story. That's why my last posts regarding this came off a little aggravated. It's nothing personal.

I'm beginning to see where you are coming from. You see the world as two struggling forces, being good and evil. I share that view, as I think that is what holds the balance of our continuum intact.

I can also see where your view on other people who don't follow the bible comes from. As they are humans also, and part of society. I can see, or better yet, I know that many things mentioned in the bible pertain to the entire human race, and not just those who believe in it. I find that the bible is full of wisdom, and certainly does hold good advice for everybody, believes and non-believers alike.

I can also see that from your point of view, not every religion or belief strokes with the things you've been taught. So obviously somewhere, something must not be correct. But that's the thing about belief. There is no need to find explanations whether something is correct or not. You either believe, or you don't. That counts for your religion, and for theirs as well. You believe in the bible, and you don't necessarily believe in any others. They believe in theirs, but they don't necessarily believe in yours, or any others for that matter. When you step out of your religion point of view (for a moment), you're looking at multiple people who all believe in their own way. How that strokes with what you have been taught yourself, well that should really be no issue, as we're talking about belief. Right? One can't say hey your belief stinks. Well they do, but that's nothing more than a belief also. It doesn't hold any hard evidence to it.

Keeping that in mind, and stepping back into the point of view of your religion, I can see how you frown upon a same-sex marriage. Such as the example of prostitution, which is legal in my country also, according to my own personal belief system, which is roughly a combination of open minded logic and common sense, I frown upon prostitution as well. Like Christians, I disapprove of it.

But here's the thing. They do exist, in my country, for whatever personal belief they might have that leads them to do those things. I usually just make sure that I stay the hell away from them when they're 'working', so to speak. Meaning I don't walk through the infamous streets that have red lights and all that.

They do their shit, and that's really their business. I wouldn't want anything to do with it, but it's still their business. From within my personal view, and from within a Christian's religion, what they're doing is not good. When I step outside of my personal view for a moment, and you step outside of the Christian religion for a moment, what we see is some girl doing what she believes is right for her. Then I say who are we to stop her from doing it, if she's not physically hurting anybody with it?

That is the same thing as saying, who does some unbeliever think he is, when he tries to stop a Christian from going to church every Sunday? (they go to church on Sundays here)

In essence, both of them are beliefs, which you cannot argue about. As you said too, we have our own personal views on things, and everyone is entitles to theirs.

So what I don't understand in this whole thing is why there are certain Christians (and maybe other people too, I'm not sure) who make it a point to stop these same-sex marriages from taking place. That is like telling the prostitute to stop doing what she does. And it's like telling a Christian to stop going to church.

None of those 3 things cause bodily harm to anybody. None of these things are violent, nor are they damaging human rights. So even though one might not agree with any of them taking place, I don't feel it's the place of anybody to tell them to stop doing it. Would you not agree?

JammieJam

yes, i understand what you are saying. i can say that i don't want to smoke, and that's my decision. i can't expect EVERYONE to stop smoking, just because i dont want to smoke.

PapRoach123

Yeah exactly. Unless they are polluting your breathable air in say, a public area where they indirectly force you to leave, because their smoke makes your air unbearable.

I've had that happen to me a few times, and they all stare at you with a confused look while you're on your knees gasping for air, seconds away from passing out.

In such a case I believe it is alright to tell them to stop it at that moment, because well, their activities affect your personal health. And that is stepping over the line.

ManSlippers

I have a little bit to comment on.

I find it hilarious that people are offended or disgusted about people like me being happy. I don't sit there and show my disapproval or disgust or offense by you and you're God-believing self, or woman-loving self. I could walk down the street and have some nasty shit said or nasty looks given, or actually having people whisk their children away. Maybe I should start treating those people like they treat me, as if I'm anti-human. As if I don't deserve to be happy like everyone else. As if I'm threatening ANYONE by making myself happy. I don't remember walking over and physically stabbing you in the heart, So why mentally do it to people like me? God doesn't approve. God doesn't approve. Oh, so because a book says so, you should disapprove too, right? You shouldn't think it's right because, you might be the one going to hell for actually accepting it, right? Seriously, I hate religion. No offense to those who partake in it or believe what a book tells you, but religion makes more people unhappy, than happy. Why? Because it separates people, and disbands them instead of uniting them because a BOOK tells you that who I am is WRONG, or unacceptable. But I'm sorry, where does it tell you in that book that you should disrespect me, call me nasty, disgusting, tell me I'm offending you, tell me who I am is not accepted, tell me I have NO RIGHT to be happy, tell me I don't have the same rights and freedoms as you do, tell me I can't have a sacred relationship because I'm not attracted to the same type as you? I must have missed that portion of that hypocritical and evil book.

PapRoach123

Daniel, I know this upsets you, but please try to stay calm. The bible is not just a book, I've said it before. And these people have the right to disapprove. But that's where the line should be drawn. They should not interfere with your business, and if they do, they are violating your human rights. That's what I stand for.

But people, people in general are scared of what they don't know. If you were borh with 4 eyes, or 6 fingers, people would turn away too. It's horrible, but it's how the human mind works.

But you are being accepted as time goes on. Look at the number of people who support it already. You're on your way to a positive future. That's happiness right there.

And those people who disapprove, well, then don't talk to them, ten others for one of them. Getting pissed over it will only pollute yourself in their eyes more, and they'll just say, look we are right, he is bad! If you stay your happy self, and respect their religion like you would like them to respect you, then you yourself are working your way to better future.

ManSlippers

I know lol. I was calm when I posted it but I just thought I'd release my stress Things that were lingering at the top of my mind after reading this thread.